WHAT A PAIN

[backupdump002]

Before I go to bed, here's something I was thinkin' about in the shower:

Internet, how often do you find someone's typing habits affecting your opinion of them? I mean, there's the obvious ones where if someone speaks in near-incomprehensible chatspeak and fangirl Japanese or whatever then you avoid them like the plague, but what about smaller things like, say, what smilies they use, or whether they type in all lowercase, or if they "roleplay" while chatting (*grins*, *laughs*, *nods*, etc), or if they keyboard mash a lot.

For example, say someone used perfect grammar and never used smilies or caps or anything like that, and everything they wrote always seemed calm and thought-out. Would you think that person was intelligent, or would you think they were arrogant or unapproachable? What if someone else were to (in essence) say the exact same things that person said, only with a less serious typing style (caps, sarcastic italics/bolding, whatever). Would you think they were smarter or easier to talk to than the other person? What other quirks have an effect on you?

I'd offer my thoughts, but I don't wanna risk coloring someone else's opinion or anything, so I'll wait :V LET ME KNOW, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS A LOT FOR SOME REASON

Edit: Oh yeah, and what about you? Are there certain smilies you refuse to use because you feel they give off a certain impression, or anything like that? IF SO, THROW THAT IN TOO

Comments

[melaniedavidson.livejournal.com]

Okay, I hope this doesn't double post.

Ohhhhhhhh my yes. I mean, on the internet, your words are pretty much your representation of yourself.

All lowercase is the big thing. That makes me go D: and usually skip past it... if we're talking about a whole comment. See, it has a specific tone. Hard to describe... hmmmm... I guess it sounds unformed and indistinct. So if there's an all-lowercase part in a comment that otherwise shows that someone can use the shift key, I assume they're going for that tone. If someone makes a whole post that departs from their habit and uses all lowercase, I read it in that tone, too, and I figure they're really upset (any length posts) or really excited (very short posts). Depending on context, obviously. That doesn't bug me, either. But when someone does it all the time, it's like trying to listen to someone who mumbles along in a monotone all the time, and whose sentences run into each other... just like when someone types in CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL it sounds like they're shouting.

No punctuation is another one. It's like all-lowercase, except it means I "hear" their words without pauses or inflection. Sentences without periods sound like they have no end, like the person just stopped in the middle of the sentence. If they lack commas where they should have them, it sounds like they're talking quickly without inflection or pausing for breath. That's tiring to read too much of (although, again, a short stylistic bit doesn't bother me, and it doesn't bug me when it's obviously just a marker that someone's really emotional at the moment). A lack of apostrophes for contractions makes the "contraction" not look like a word. A missing apostrophe for a possessive that should have one turns it into a plural.

Other stuff, though, like smilies, asterisks, italics, capslock, abbreviations and stuff like lol (mixed in with normal text, I mean)... they all have a different tone and flavor. If someone uses them a lot, I just assume they've been on the internet a while and treat it a little more like talking to someone face-to-face.

(Aside: I have different standards for IMing--a higher threshold for smilies and asterisk-gestures, more tolerance for incomplete sentences or sentences split over several lines as punctuation, even more tolerance for misspellings if they're corrected--because of just that point. IMing is more immediate and feels more like a face-to-face conversation. You can't say what you want to say in long, multiparagraph comments... or at least, the IM software tends to discourage it. You have length limits, formatting that way is more of a pain, and you know your comment is probably going into a much smaller window (so that if your comment is too long, they might have to scroll up to read it). With LJ it's better to make longer comments and reply to several things at once, especially when the other person might not be there at that moment... if you treat it like an IM conversation, things will go very slowly. Also, with IM, short reaction comments (like "XD!!" or "*nodnod*") just show you're listening and reacting. On LJ, though, a comment consisting of "*nods*" doesn't really invite someone to continue, because they've probably already made whatever points they wanted to make. On IM that stuff is useful because something long will necessarily be broken up over many "individual" comments, so if you just let the other person talk it might seem like you're not listening, since you can react between their comments. Of course you don't want to interrupt without a reason, but smilies and gestures don't do that. They're just minor feedback. It mimics what you get when you're talking to someone face-to-face and they look at you and nod and stuff versus staring off into the distance.)

Over the character limit! More to come.

[melaniedavidson.livejournal.com]

Would you think that person was intelligent, or would you think they were arrogant or unapproachable?

Nah, at most I'd assume they weren't much into... er... internet culture... and that they'd formed their writing habits somewhere else. I'd be less inclined to use smilies, abbreviations, gestures, or memes, and I'd be less inclined to use my icon to say something. I'd say, "Ha!" instead of "Lol!" and other things like that. I might also see them as older, since the older someone is, the less likely it is that they formed their writing habits on the internet and the more likely it is they formed them writing essays for school, or writing memos for work, or writing letters. Anywhere that's more formal and less immediate, in other words. If their writing had grammatical or idiomatic quirks, I might conclude that English wasn't their first language.

A few final words on formatting. Bolding in the middle of a sentence (not for headers or ETAs, though) makes something look like an advertisement. An advertisement for the circus. Or for something that has an infomercial. Probably because novels don't tend to use boldface at all, except possibly for chapter titles.... Using a funky font (or colored text) for all their posts/comments doesn't make someone look more unique; it just makes them look like they're trying too hard. I don't read these unless I think there are lulz to be had. Using an increased font size is almost the same as capslock. It's like someone speaking loudly, though not necessarily with a "shouting" intonation. I skip these, too. Using a smaller font makes it look like you're whispering or muttering. I have a high tolerance for this as a "tone" thing (hey, I do it too--I think it's more effective than "*whispers*"), but a low tolerance for it if there doesn't seem to be any tone-based reason for it. Once I saw someone make a post in a community entirely in a reduced font... when people bitched, rightly, that it was harder to read, they got all huffy and said they were just trying to make their post look shorter. @_@ That's what the cut tag's for! So that's another thing I skip past, because it's harder to read. (Plus, I have a lower opinion of people who intentionally make their writing harder to read for no good reason.)

[doxinator.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you mentioned tone, since that's kind of the crux of my whole opinion on the matter.

The way I look at it is this: personally, when I'm having a casual conversation with friends in real life, I'm not going to go out of my way to make sure everything I say is AMAZING and super intelligent and thought-provoking and all that jazz, which, I'm sure, is the case with a lot of people. What I'm interested in when it comes to casual conversation is getting my tone across, bonding, just relating to people without worrying about how I sound, because the main thing is that we're comfortable enough with each other--and ourselves--that that sort of thing doesn't matter to us. This isn't to say that it doesn't matter ALL THE TIME, but see, that's kind of the thing. When it is a big priority, it's usually because the people you're with aren't really friends, but authority figures, or you're doing something where how you sound is important, such as writing an essay, or schmoozing people at some fancy party, or selling something, or something else along those lines. And how you act then never, never reflects who you really are.

On the Internet you can't use your voice, so you have to get your tone across in other ways, which is how I think most people type: with tones. You might use caps when you're being silly (I don't really percieve caps as shouting, but more like that loud, sarcastic tone of voice people use when they're joking around. YOU KNOW), type in lowercase, drop punctuation, use a smiley, change the formatting, use abbreviations, keyboard mash, use text sparkles, whatever you want. The way a sentence is interpreted can be totally changed depending on how you change the "tone."

Which is why, when someone always types perfectly no matter what's happening, most people feel put off. Like in real life, the situations that call for a more serious tone are formal, controlled, where you act a certain way to impress people but it doesn't reflect on your actual personality at all. When you speak in a conversation the same way you speak when writing an English paper then the conversation isn't likely to do much in the way of forming bonds and getting to know one another, because frankly, typing that way all the time makes it seem like you don't HAVE much personality to begin with. It's like instant messaging your teacher or something.

Uhhhhh so I guess what I'm getting at is, yeah, your words on the Internet are a representation of yourself, which is why my typing habits are goofy and informal, hahahaha. 8D ALSO: BE YOURSELF ETC

TYPIN' THIS UP REALLY QUICKLY BEFORE SEEING WHAT I CAN DO WITH SANITARIUM SORRY IF THIS SOUNDS STUPID DKFGJD THROWING MY OWN POINTS TO THE WIND WOO

[melaniedavidson.livejournal.com]

When it is a big priority, it's usually because the people you're with aren't really friends, but authority figures, or you're doing something where how you sound is important, such as writing an essay, or schmoozing people at some fancy party, or selling something, or something else along those lines.

Yeah, but that's not the only factor. See... grammer, punctuation, all the rest, REALLY have an effect on how easy stuff is to read and how clear it is. And it's even more important on, say, LJ, because someone'll read the whole comment at once. If they misinterpret you can't just interrupt them in the middle and clarify (though you do get a little of that with IM). And you can't see their face to tell if they're confused or taking something the wrong way, and change what you're saying accordingly. Yeah, I'm more casual with friends, but I still want to get my point across clearly.

(I don't really percieve caps as shouting, but more like that loud, sarcastic tone of voice people use when they're joking around. YOU KNOW)

Oh totally. |D It depends on context, though.

...type in lowercase, drop punctuation, use a smiley, change the formatting, use abbreviations, keyboard mash, use text sparkles, whatever you want. The way a sentence is interpreted can be totally changed depending on how you change the "tone."

That's what I'm saying! That's why it makes me cringe to see someone doing that all the time. Because then EVERYTHING THEY WRITE gets that tone and it loses all meaning and art. And you know how if somebody says "fuck" every other sentence, it stops being meaningful and just turns into this stupid verbal tic? And then you can't tell when they actually want to swear, either? It's kind of like that.

And not only is it pretty much sacrificing the tone you can get from that particular tool by using it all the time, but it can be sacrificing other tools, too. There's plenty you can do with English to convey tone (seriously, just look at dialog in novels) but some of it takes fine-tuning to really come across properly... and you can't build a castle in a swamp. It's... limiting. D:

Like in real life, the situations that call for a more serious tone are formal, controlled, where you act a certain way to impress people but it doesn't reflect on your actual personality at all.

Yeah, but you can use grammer and punctuation correctly without being formal. :/ I think that's a needless expansion of the definition of "formal". Some people just want to make sure their writing's easily understood and not annoying to read.

[doxinator.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I don't really see the way someone types during a casual conversation as meaningful or art, just... the way they type. Someone could type entirely in lowercase and what they have to say is no less meaningful than anything else.

Oh, no, I was referring more towards the sort of people who type correctly but are also very... reserved in the way they type, I guess you could say? Never break away from tradition, huge grammar Nazis, everything they say has to be "deep," etc. Like I said, I don't think it's WRONG to type correctly as long as you can loosen up, and as long as I can actually joke around without you rolling your eyes because I use caps or something. It didn't really have anything to do with your comment, admittedly, I was just ranting about something I see a lot dkfjhgdjgh. Maybe I hang around the wrong places :V

[melaniedavidson.livejournal.com]

By art I just mean... oh, skill, making something more than the bare minimum.

and what they have to say is no less meaningful than anything else.

Yeah, but there are plenty of other people who have something meaningful to say and who write in a way that doesn't give me a headache to try to read. *shrug* Fine, if the internet only had a dozen people, it'd be harder to just ignore people--since where else could you go--but as it is, if they can't be bothered to make an effort, then I can't be bothered either.

ETA: And going back to IM I just noticed this but it's only consistent "i" that makes me run screaming for the hills bothers me there, not uncapitalized sentence beginnings... unless those sentences aren't the start of a comment. Post. ARGH I don't know what to call it here I'll just put an example:

person1: here is my sentence
person2: here is my sentence. Here's another one
person3: here is my sentence. here's another one
person4: here is my sentence
person4: here's another one

A SUBTLE DISTINCTION but for some reason the way person3 does it looks so much worse to me. I guess it's because the break between posts (like with person4's) is enough somehow. It kind of... substitutes for normal sentence boundaries.

Oh, I see what you're saying there.

[doxinator.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't really agree with that since I think meaningful things can, have, and will be said without perfect grammar, and those things are still very valuable and worth taking the time to read and, possibly, learn from, but I don't think there's really anything else I can add to that without running around in circles, so :B. LET'S JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE

YOU KNOW I'VE SORT OF NOTICED THAT, though I always thought it was less aesthetically pleasing when the capitalization on the two sentences are different. Like:

this is a sentence. This is a sentence.
This is a sentence. this is a sentence.

It just looks better to me to have them both be the same, I don't know. It doesn't get on my nerves or anything, though :B

[melaniedavidson.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying they're not, necessarily, just that for me it's not worth it to slog through to find out, since I can easily just talk to someone else--and there's at least an equal chance of that other person having something meaningful to say.

Oh yeah, the second one's just terrible and ugly. D: The first one... I don't know; it kind of looks like it's cutting in from something else, if that makes sense. It does look worse without the timestamp and handle in front of it, though.

[doxinator.livejournal.com]

AND JUST TO CLARIFY I don't think it's bad if someone types well (that would be kind of weird of me), just as long as they can freakin' loosen up every now and then and have a fun conversation about something :V YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK SERIOUS ALL THE TIME, IT'S OKAY